Idaho music Message boardOn that note, any RHP fan should go to www.timestereo.com and order the His Name Is Alive tape "Frog and Toad" which contains the Kozelek demo of a song that HNIA later redid on one of their albums. Only 5 bucks, and the whole tape is wicked awesome!
I love RHP, but Kozelek is one whiney bitch.
RHP were not that bad in Seattle, but they were a little sluggish and out of practice. Kozelek said he hadn't slept in three days, which probably didn't help mattters.
I disagree. I didn't notice any excessive break when I saw them in northern Kentucky. All I noticed was some rocking and some rolling.
Idaho is awesome live, but those 5 minute guitar tuning breaks in between songs really kill their momentum, regardless of the pre-recorded stuff they play.
I caught RHP in Toronto a few weeks ago, and can honestly say it was one of the weakest live shows I've ever seen. The drummer couldn't keep a steady tempo, and the band didn't really seem together. A couple of times, MK seemed to just stop playing, and the rest of the band clunked to an awkwards stop behind him. Aren't these guys supposed to be pros?
To their credit though, they gave Ruben Olivares a country feel that I thought worked great. But I left early since the idea of going for a drink was much more appealing than watching the rest of the set.
Conversely, Idaho's show here last winter was an exercise in professionalism. Even though it was on a Monday night, I happily stayed to watch to the very end. Nice work, Jeff & Co.
They play Seattle June 9th at the Crocodile Cafe (thecrocodile.com). You can find other RHP tour dates on the Sub Pop website. You should be able to get tickets for the Seattle show on ticketweb.com in a little bit. They're playing Portland and Vancouver too if that's closer for you.
where are they playing in Seattle? What is the venue name?
I think it's a pretty solid record overall. It's too bad there isn't more stuff like "Between Days" on there. That's a great song.
They're coming to Seattle on June 9th. It should be fun.
could be worse, like i really liked the High Llamas around the Gideon Gaye & Hawaii albums, but they kept ruining otherwise lovely songs with gratuitously overlong endings that just repeated over & over.. if anyone's familiar with 'track goes by' off gideon, they'd agree with me... the last 10 mins of the track stretch even jobe's patience to breaking point!
but yeah, conciseness in songwriting is nearly always a good policy. only got old ramon today (british) - it seems ok enough.. time will tell
btw there really needs to a decent RHP site if you know what i am getting at.... Marcus Stenfors effort is ok, but the old site that went offline was much nicer. ah well
nitey nite people!
rob
good point.
Pretty good reading of the new record, and Marks last two records (solo). And although I love RHP's trademark song endings, I do agree, it gets to be a little bit redundant at times. Mark and co. could learn a few things from Jeff Martin. Sometimes it's best to leave 'em wanting more, yes?
old ramon is not bad... i can say i was more impressed with the shanti project songs or even the john denver stuff though.. this isn't as acessible a listen i suppose. the more you listen the more it grows on you though!
my biggest gripe with RHP, which overall i LOVE, is that they take a song like Make Like Paper, San Geronimo, or most of the new album, and play the chorus a thousand times at the end, slowly getting more aggro... so the songs are always over 10 mintes long instead of maybe 7 or 8... a 14 minute song is ok, if it is evolving or changing somehow, but RHP live shows tend to be an endurance test- some of the songs just go ON and ON!!! which is i guess the indulgent part of the songwriting... Old Ramon is a pretty mellow album overall, which is too bad... they used to rock some of those songs live, the recordings lack a certain bite overall. oh and the mark kozelek EP is good, the album is not so interesting... at least the ep was just like 6 acoustic songs, one with a band... not too monotonous- esp with a few original songs. i don't know what the point of 14 AC/DC covers is, if you re-work them all pretty much the same way, and make the melodies the same too... i wish he could have at least thrown some different band's songs into the mix.. maybe he's waiting for his NEXT albm to do all neil young songs... except that RHP are great at N.Young songs!! lol
ok, so time for rebuttal!!!!
actually, i'm pretty sure 'wop-a-din-din' is different on old ramon than the one on the 7", more acousticy vs. electric-'fly-away' style. i don't own old ramon yet, but i'm pretty sure i heard that...
The 2nd version of "Cruiser" (the one done in Swedan) remains unreleased unless I'm confused and that's the one on the album. Either way, one is not available.
There's also the 20 minutes of "Michigan" that was left off the album but I suspect part of that made it onto the "Fly Away" cover on the Denver tribute cd.
That sucks about "Wop A Din Din". I paid good money to hunt down the 7" since it was supposed to be a one of a kind. Oh well, at least it will be in better fidelity.
The "Wop A Din Din" on "Old Ramon" is the band version - probably the one you already have.
I like the arrangement of that song, but the lyrics sound like a 3rd grade poetry assignment.
Supposedly they recorded two versions of "Cruiser" for the album. Does anyone know what became of the other one?
Which version of "Wop A Din Din" is on Old Ramon. I have the band version and it's pretty cool. Totally different than the acoustic live version he's been playing...
My friend made me a copy of the promo of "Old Ramon". Rob, if you like "Blue Guitar", you'll dig it.
The sound and pacing of the two is similar, but "Old Ramon" has a little less of the off-the-cuff, rambling feel of "Blue Guitar". Maybe their tenuous relationship with Island/Supreme led them to play it a little straighter than they might have otherwise.
Anyway, it's 70+ minutes of *original* RHP material, so I have no serious complaints. I'm sure everyone will have their own 2 cents soon enough.
P.S. - James, I agree with you about "Wop a Din Din", but the rest of the record is much better.
April 17th !!!!! bloody hell, better get on to my chain of RHP loving mates
To the debate about songs for a blue guitar... My two fav RHP albums are the rollercoaster one (shit, which number is that!?) and Songs 4 a blue guitar... sorry, but you can hardly get into the 'selling out' argument with RHP - they're hardly the biggest band in the world- or accessible musically to people with less interest in this type of music. anyway, i guess it's up to the person, but i thought i'd stand up for the album. it is the album that got me finally into them (arrived a little late there!)
bands do progress, look at Idaho, the new one is a definite progression for me in terms of overall approach and sound, i love the others, but the band just keep getting better, my previous fav was 'three sheets..' but this is something else! I'd get dead bored with a band that slavishly recreated exactly the same sound over and over. sure, some bands go unacceptably crappy, but some get better and better (ie late Talk Talk) - i'd have never liked them if they'd stuck to be duran duran like the 1st album - eugh!
peace people
rOb
"Old Ramon" is coming out on Sub Pop on April 17th! See subpop.com for details.
- just though you might want to know.
I'm a little surprised to hear people criticizing Kozelek/RHP for suddenly becoming self indulgent and corny. Since when have they *not* been self indulgent and corny?
yes...his voice is and has always been his strong point, but ...
I heard a new track off of the new record on mp3 called wop a din din, and I'm just kind of awestruck at how corny and literal his lyrics and melodies have become. His voice is still so beautiful, but his songwriting, has become so unimaginative. At his worst, however, he's still better than most of the artists in my cd collection.
I saw him solo in L.A. at McCabe's (pretty good) at a 4 A.D. fest. ('94) and at an in-store show a couple years later in Tempe, AZ w/the RHP band. At the latter, he appeared to have an arrogant demeanor at times toward the audience and store owners. I enjoy his early self-titled EP and full-length CD, but have since grown tired of his material since Ocean Beach. It was "Songs For A Blue Guitar", however, where he seemed to begin his mission to demonstrate the worthiness of his classic-rock/pop roots, both in terms of his selection of covers and the more frequent extended-jam bombast of his originals. I have since found his work (incl. new solo) to be increasingly one-dimensional, derivative, and self-absorbed. Sorry.
Is it just me, or is Mr. Kozalek a prima-donna jerk? Don't get me wrong, he's one of my all-time favourites, but I've seen himn two seperate times in two seperate cities on two seperate tours, and both times he threatened somebody in the audience. Anyone else have any stories like this? Or am I the witness to two isolated incidents?
By the way just saw Almost Famous. Weird seeing him on the big screen.
I have had this kozelek solo cd for some time now having ordered it directly from www.badmanrecords.com when it first became available. first of all i would not hesitate to order directly from badman. i have done it three times now, and the cd's come fast and well packaged. as far as the music is concerned it is most similar to Sundays and Holidays, Over My Head, or Revelation Big Sur. Acoustic and Folksy, the cuts Ruth Marie and You Ain't Got a Hold on Me are incredible. i'd say it is worth it even if you like the old rhp stuff best. the Denver Tribute has some good stuff especially I'm Sorry, however i can't remomend it as highly. Mark has been saying at shows that Old Ramon will be out in January 2001... cool.. ive heard alot of it at shows or at least the acoustic versions and some mp3's Cruiser, Michigan, Golden, Wop a Din Din, River Song i for one can't wait.
Thanks Alan. As an armchair music critic, I appreciate the props
('Merican for compliment). Yes, from what I understand, Mark Eitzel
was instrumental in helping Red House Painters make a name for
themselves in San Francisco.
Now for today's long rant...
I suppose this is getting off the topic a little bit, but it seems
like sometimes people don't like to see their favorite bands evolve
very much, or at least have difficulty relating when they do. Bands
are made up of people and people change. I'm not trying to criticize
anyone in particular here, but it's really asking a lot to expect a
band to recreate the album that helped you get through a hellish
period in your life, or that helps you remember a time when you were
truly happy.
Nobody can be miserable (or happy) forever, and no band can continue
to make the same album forever. Sure, industry types try to foster
this kind of behavior when a band is following up a huge hit, but most
bands with any substance and integrity will find a way to make their
own statement in spite of it all.
I guess what I'm saying is that for me, listening to music involves a
certian level of commitment. Just because Mark Kozelek's new album
doesn't sound like Down Colorful Hill doesn't mean they can't both be
great if you give them an equal chance. A new, stiff, dark blue pair
of jeans isn't as comfortable as the pair you've owned for years, but
that doesn't mean they won't ever be.
I'm not saying Kozelek and Red House Painters can do no wrong
(covering the Star Spangled Banner - What were you thinking?), but I
do know that I'm excited for them, and I can't wait to see what
they'll do next. I'm sure they'll play some of my favorite songs when
(and if) they tour, but what I'm really looking forward to is hearing
some of *their* favorite songs.
I bought the Mark Kozelek cd in Glasgow last week. It's pretty good, even though I can't say I was a big AC/DC fan. I loved the RHP early stuff best "Down Colorful Hill", and RHP 1, although there is some great stuff on "Ocean Beach" especially the last two tracks. In fact I was dead chuffed (that's a British term for pleased as Punch for all you Americans) to get the chan
I bought the Mark Kozelek cd in Glasgow last week. It's pretty good, even though I can't say I was a big AC/DC fan. I loved the RHP early stuff best "Down Colorful Hill", and RHP 1, although there is some great stuff on "Ocean Beach" especially the last two tracks. In fact I was dead chuffed (that's a British term for pleased as Punch for all you Americans) to get the chance to visit Grace Cathedral Park last year as that's my favourite song of theirs. It's really suprisingly wee (Scots for small). Anyway if you are a fan Dave then you should buy it- it'll keep you going till Old Ramon shows up. Incidentally wasn't my other hero Mark Eitzel responsible for discovering RHP.Ahh AMC rest in peace. By the way Seth I was pretty impressed with your choices of fave Idaho songs!
Hmm...if you didn't like "Songs for a Blue Guitar" you may very well hate this. It's definitely on the light and folky side. From the Devil in the Woods article, it sounds like parts of "Old Ramon" are downright peppy compared to early RHP, so you may not like it either.
How is that CD? I'm a little
skeptical 'cuz it seems that even
though I like RHP, I like each new
release less and less when compared
to their earlier, darker stuff.
How does this one stack up to RHP's
early work?
Err... What I meant to say in my previous post was that you can order it from the label if you don't have any luck with Amazon (or if your local record stores suck and don't carry it). It sure didn't take 4-6 weeks when I ordered it from the label. That's for sure.
Hi. This is available through the label. They are having distributor problems right now. Go to http://www.badmanrecordingco.com/ and send em' a check. That's what I did. This CD is well worth picking up if you're already an RHP fan. If you already have the Shanti CD (buy it for the great Idaho tracks!) or the John Denver tribute (don't waste your money), the versions of "Find Me, Ruben Olivares" and "Around and Around" are virtually identical to the versions on those discs.
Supposedly the band has bought the rights to its last album "Old Ramon". There's a pretty decent story on this in Devil In the Woods magazine (http://www.devilinthewoods.com/). The rumor is they are shopping it to labels and are hoping to release it before the end of the year.
Has anyone heard Mark Kozelek's new
7-song CD? It just came out last
week, but I've yet to hear anything
from it. There's some 30-second
Real Media excerpts at www.cdnow.com
(I couldn't get 'em to work on my PC.)
I'm gonna paste the following review
that I found at www.amazon.com at
the bottom of this post, but first
I have two questions:
1) Has anyone heard this?
2) Jeff or Dan, what do you guys
think of Red House Painters? Which
is your favorite album of them (if
you have a favorite)?
Amazon.com
It was only a matter of time before Red House Painters leader Mark Kozelek struck out on his own for a stretch. Awaiting the release of an already recorded sixth RHP album, Old Ramon, Kozelek decided to show his playful side with a loose collection of tunes that range from three AC/DC covers to a John Denver cut to several acoustic numbers that showcase his dexterous finger-picking and warm-as-the-summer-sun voice. "Ruth Marie"--a touching remembrance of a friend's grandmother withering away in a nursing home--is the obvious standout. But surprisingly, Kozelek also wrings genuine pathos from the three AC/DC tunes as well. The title track is armed with drums and distorted guitars, but the melody is rewritten and the tune slowed to a crawl, transforming from a braggadocio anthem ("Gonna be a rock 'n' roll singer / Gonna be a rock n' roll star") to a wistful bedroom dream. "Bad Boy Boogie" and especially "You Ain't Got a Hold on Me" become earnest folk songs meant for the ages. Weird but essential. --Rob O'Connor
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