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RE: BUSH again | from DeanMar 03 2003 - 01:48

Micah, my point re Blair was that he is supposed to be representing a democratic populous. Me and you are having a disagreement. Totally different thing.

RE: BUSH again | from micahFeb 28 2003 - 15:27

thank you for clarifying, marc. i partially agree with what you're saying. but even where i don't agree, i respect your opinion as you have laid it out clearly.

RE: BUSH again | from marcFeb 28 2003 - 14:56

micah, i apologize if i misinterpreted your position, perhaps i should clarify mine.

I was living and working in s.korea a few years ago when the two sides made great inroads (families were reunited for the first time since the cease fire) into creating an atmosphere were constructive discussions could be held.

The situation reminded me of the one in northern ireland after there was a change in government in the UK. The exiting conservative government's attitude was one of constant stubborness towards the irish republicans, refusing to listen to any arguments until their own demands were met. The subsequent labour party victory brought with it a desire to finally begin a journey upon a road which could lead to peace in ireland. (THIS could have made tony blair a historical figure.)

Although the situation there now is still far from perfect, the two sides involved are slowly moving forward, and i feel as new generations are born and grow up within a different atmpsphere so their respective communities attitudes can change.

This, i felt was the situation that was beginning to arise within the two koreas. One of the problems was the constant sniping from the american military who were resident within south korea. As a foreigner in korea, imagining what could be achieved, i wanted to see outsiders just bite their tongues, and keep quiet. Okay, nobody was defending the situation in the north, but there was no point harping on about the bad things. History shows that this gets you nowhere.

Maybe it was a little simplistic to suggest that any american influence was stopping the reuniting of korea, but they were not helping. What america and many other UN nations did in defending the south was admirable, but isn't it now time for a change of execution of policy?

I feel that i now know a little of the korean psyche, and that they make up both a very proud, and a very stubborn community. They need a small nudge in the right direction, not a great big, "Don't do this! Don't do that!" shout in the face.

I know that no other country has pure motives, but we are trying to prove our own to others. Again, this might sound simplistic, but as with badly behaving children, you have to show them how to behave better. The old adage of, "do as i say, not as i do", is the justification of the dictator, and it belongs in the twentieth century. I like to feel that it's time to move on, and losing face really is no loss at all.

RE: BUSH again | from micahFeb 28 2003 - 13:17

marc, what i was referring to was your belief that the two koreas would be "allowed", essentially, to reunite if the u.s. would stay out of it. i see that as an answer too simple. do you honestly believe that the u.s. is what has prevented reunification on that peninsula all these years?

china also has bigger problems than copyright law.

Dean, i am currently in school and as to your quote about Blair....that's basically what you're saying to me if you think i'm a fool. you know what i think but you know better...ironic.

i am willing to grant you many things. i understand the hypocrisy of the u.s. in foreign policy. perhaps from my messages you have an image of me as a cheerleader of the u.s. and all that it does. that would be mistaken. i am ashamed of many things this country has done. also, i did not vote for bush. and i have mixed feelings about the iraq situation. i just don't like all the blanket statements i'm seeing that aren't backed up with sense or facts. like the original one. how does "me" know what's going on with the search for bin laden? does he have a top secret clearance with the pentagon? i won't pretend to have the answers or to understand everything about this. and i do not swallow everything i am fed as the truth. but if we're going to have a discussion on this i think we all need to have an understanding of the complexities of such issues. notice i didn't say what i supported the u.s. position on iraq yet you assumed i did and fired a three-pronged question at me. i agree that the u.s. should set a good example. does it? not always...ok, rarely. hypocritical to a fault. but let's not assume that other countries have pure motives, as seemed to be implied.

RE: BUSH again | from marcFeb 28 2003 - 11:23

i know it sounds simple, but what's worse, the monster, or it's creator?

as for china, the only problem there is to convince the chinese to respect international copyright law. we wouldn't want coke or mcdonalds to have their products ripped off, now would we?

FOR GOD'S SAKE, THINK ABOUT THE SHAREHOLDERS!!!

RE: BUSH again | from pyotrFeb 28 2003 - 09:24

I have to agree with Micah here. I'm pretty amazed at how many people look at this stuff and say: ooh, bad, no war, or alternatively, go usa, go to war. Sure, we created the monster that is Saddam. Sure it took us a long time to realize he's a monster. But eventually we were going to have to deal with that.

As for North Korea, well, even if they didn't exist, we would still have bases and a military presence in Asia, because the problem (from an American point of view) is and always has been China. Just being realistic.

RE: BUSH again | from marcFeb 28 2003 - 08:21

I would like to know why you think my post is absurd? I am just showing you that things are not always as simple as they seem.

For years saddam hussein was supported in whatever he did because it was to the benefit of those in power in the west. Now you are telling me that he is the enemy.
Are you saying that before you didn't know what you were talking about, or were you just misinformed, or were you just plain wrong? Whichever option you choose, perhaps you would like to add to that a reason why i should believe what you say now?

And actually, i think that if the usa as it is presently governed was out of the picture, that it stopped meddling in the affairs of others purely for it's own gain without any thought to the position of anyone else, then maybe the small countries out there might not be so quick to follow suit.
The most powerful country should be there to set a GOOD example.

RE: BUSH again | from DeanFeb 28 2003 - 01:19

Micah: you need to go back to school.

RE: BUSH again | from fredFeb 27 2003 - 21:25

great white northern puerto rico, you mean New England?

RE: BUSH again | from canuckFeb 27 2003 - 18:17

when the shit hits the fan you're all welcome in the great white northern puerto rico...

RE: BUSH again | from ckFeb 27 2003 - 17:58

It's a simple srategy, a basic psychological principle: to unify a divided country, one needs a common enemy. Hussein is a convenient one as he was when George Sr. was in charge. Remember Khadafy? He's now an ally. So was Hussein when we were at odds with post-Shah Iran. And Noriega, and Pinochet, and...the list is endless. It's a joke, and anyone with any historical overview of the situation knows it.

RE: BUSH again | from micahFeb 27 2003 - 13:47

i don't want to start a big argument, you're entitled to your opinion...and i was going to leave this topic alone but, marc, your post was just too absurd.

RE: BUSH again | from micahFeb 27 2003 - 13:45

yeah, kim jong il and saddam hussein would be able to be nice, benevolent rulers if only the usa was out of the picture....come on.

RE: BUSH again | from marcFeb 27 2003 - 12:37

the USA has to keep winding up kim jong-il to stop the north and the south koreans joining together. If there was a united korea then there would be no need for any american military bases there. And if there is no need for the bases in korea, then there would be no need for them in japan.

This might give other nations some funny ideas, and germany, UK, and every other occupied country might get a little rebellious, and we can't have that, now can we?

RE: BUSH again | from eraserheadFeb 27 2003 - 08:42

Messy typing above. If this war goes down it going to be the perfect reason for thousands to join Al Queda. Then of course moving onto North Korea, no doubt.(enter sarcasm here) It was brilliant for Bush to link North Korea in the "axis of evil" and call the leader a pigme. Bravo.
I just heard Coldplay was asked not to say anthing against the war at the grammys or they would be bleeped out. Of course this is not surprising at all, it still makes me ill.

RE: BUSH again | from eraserheadFeb 27 2003 - 08:30

RE: BUSH again | from meFeb 26 2003 - 19:48

Yes Farm...I understand..It's just sometimes these notions come over me as I browse the message board and ponder the world. RALPH NADER RULES!!!!

RE: BUSH again | from farmcafeFeb 26 2003 - 11:33

music and politics, a familiar combination yet not a very influential one in terms of ultimate outcomes. i think even less influencial is the rhetoric of the message board. (let alone the fact that in this forum most people are here to support idaho, not the beliefs of the right or left.) i'm not opposed to the expression of political opinion here, (it's not my site anyway) but it seems as inconsequential as leaves blowing in the wind. i.e. there are better forums. just my opinion.

RE: BUSH again | from ckFeb 26 2003 - 10:43

I think it's important at a time like this to support our president, and I want to go on record as saying I'm 100% behind Al Gore.

RE: BUSH again | from Sam SFeb 26 2003 - 05:01

I can ONLY hope that most people around the world understand that Bush does not represent the views of most of us Americans. He didn't even win the popular vote, if you remember. That man is a major embarrassment at best.

RE: BUSH again | from DeanFeb 26 2003 - 01:06

I love that idea that attacking an Arab nation is going to STOP fundamentalism and terrorism. Smart thinking boys.
And also: in two supposed democracies ( I live in UK ), the majority of people don't want to go to war and yet....
Blair actually made a speach this week that basically said " we know what you think but we know better"
Evolution is cold indeed.

BUSH again | from meFeb 25 2003 - 17:34

I feel that Bush is looking as hard for Bin Laden as OJ is for the "real killer"....what say my fellow Idahoans???

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