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RE: Studio/Recording Setup for "Dick"? | from billNov 09 2011 - 14:32

Hi Jon. Considering the sound source is projecting and being picked up in alternate phase by both sides of the figure 8 center mic the only issue is with boundry reflections coming back to the rear side which would affect mono figure 8 recordings the same way. The side mic in ms doesn't see the reflections from the same angle and really doesn't care what is front and rear when creating the stereo image. When collapsing to mono however, I find cardiod center mics tend to boost low mids (the proximity effect is lessened by the sides matrixing/comb filtering) and the rear signal from a figure 8 is already doing this to some degree. This means a more consistent mix level and sound quality (using fig. 8 center) under any collapse of the stereo field- think car stereos where the door speakers are facing each other and other worse case scenarios. When using two amps that are in phase, the rear of the center mic picks up a good bit of the effects chain (assuming open back cabinets) that keep the effects blended in mono. The ribbon mics have one element in motion so the level/response is matched unlike condensor fig 8's that need 2 diaphragms. The Royer 121 et all will not function like this as they are closer to cardiod from the front.

RE: Studio/Recording Setup for "Dick"? | from jonNov 08 2011 - 17:15

thanks for this info bill - i am a huge fan of both the music and the sound of these records and it's very insightful.

i am curious about using 2 figure of 8 mics (coles) as a m/s pair. isn't the mid mic supposed to be cardioid (or omni)? how does the 2 fig 8 work out?

RE: Studio/Recording Setup for "Dick"? | from RobOct 13 2011 - 09:18

Thanks, Bill. I know this took awhile to type out but the fans appreciate it. Wish you all the best on your next projects.

RE: Studio/Recording Setup for "Dick"? | from billAug 29 2011 - 15:05

The cooking was done analog, a microwave oven was used for damage control, the leftovers were superior to mp3's.

RE: Studio/Recording Setup for "Dick"? | from bartlebyAug 29 2011 - 11:12

corr:*for someone who's just been called a dick!

RE: Studio/Recording Setup for "Dick"? | from bartlebyAug 29 2011 - 11:07

...but was the cooking done using analogue or digital mixing?
anyway, nice comeback for someone . eat that, gearheads and racknerds! will for the moment not allow myself to become one due to funding issues and settle for recording on whatever is at hand with a Mini Orange amp and crapoid J&D Jazzstang. Any Idaho & Jim'Orourke fans with a drum set near Freiburg, Germany want to join? Underfunded lofi Idaho fans of the world unite!

RE: Studio/Recording Setup for "Dick"? | from BEHNAug 29 2011 - 09:50

You're a fucking genius Bill !!!

All the best

BEHN

RE: Studio/Recording Setup for "Dick"? | from Bill SankeAug 28 2011 - 18:02

sorry about the late response, the new website took a while to get together so i waited until it was running. i'm bill sanke by the way, the guy who engineers jeffs music.
you were a dick was recorded into pro tools hd 3 using benchmark converters synced to an isochrone clock at 96k with lynx aurora interfaces. u67's, 421's, sm57, d112 and a c24 in x/y low and in front (just forward of the rooms null point)around an early 70's gretsch kit with a snare i made from parts. on 1 or 2 tracks a tlm 170 and a 4038 as the side in ms was used low and out front. bass is an early 70's spec (heavy northern ash) p bass i built direct through a jensen direct box or through a 60's vox ac 10 and a 421. a 60's silvertone short scale bass with flat-wounds direct was used on impaler. vox ac 10, or 60's fender deluxes (both with vox bulldog speakers) on guitars often with a 2 amp spatial set up with separate effects chains in ms using coles 4038's. custom univibes, a wha pedal i built for jeff, full drive distortion, mxr dynacomp, roland re 201 space echo and echo park echo comprise the effects chains. wurlitzer is done direct or the same way the guitars are done in ms. prophet 5 the same. 1928 steinway grand is coles in ms over the sound board. the schimel upright is mono or ms with coles rear off the sound board. cellos are u67 or c24 (can't remember) low and in front in mono. acoustic 4 strings are coles in ms or mono and sometimes audix or sure dynamics, possibly a km100 at times. percussion is audix and shure dynamics. harps are likely the same as well as mandolin. vocal is mainly c24 but dynamic and ribbons were used on scratch tracks that we decided to use. the 1272am preamps that i build are used on everything with no exceptions. no eq or compression on the way in except on vocals where we use a tube tech cl1b or 1a 2 to 1 like an la2a with only a few db of action. everything is put on individual faders on my highly modded neotek series 2 42 channel board to mix . neve 1073, 3104, and quad eight eq;s are used when needed, 1073 always on the kick, 3104 occasionally on snare and bass. tube tec, 1176 rev a. inovonics 201 and la2a compressors are used on track compression. plug ins are only used to do damage control. manual pitch and volume correction when needed. a modded echoplate 2 is the only reverb used except for my magnetic driver kick drum and mixing bowl reverb experiments on a few tracks. pcm 41 is used in envelope control for some subtle things as well as delta lab delays. a dynachord leslie simulator is used for some subtle things as well. a fairman tmc compressor is used on the mix buss into benchmark convertors and isochrone clock at 88.2 k 24 bit logged to an alesis masterlink. we monitor on tannoy concentric system 8 and 600 monitors only using hafler and bryston amps. we use asc tube traps to control the acoustics around everything including the mix room as we recorded and mixed in jeffs house that is not a proper studio.there is more but i can't recall it all. mastering was done by eddie schryer at oasis on a wavelab/cubetech system completely in the digital domain, tannoy 215 dmt and sys. 600 monitors, lavery output convertors with virtually no eq (except for 1 song that needed some subsonic filtering on an acoustic guitar that we didn't hear when mixing) and only a few db of peak and rms limiting using ua mastering plugins. the vinyl was cut from the rendered 88.2 24 bit masters onto custom machined platters that oasis's vinyl guy (david i think) had made for us. the platters were oversized discs cut down to 12 inch to minimize lateral runout (flatness). the lone gunman was done more or less the same way except the tracking was done on a mix plus system at 48k using the same benchmark converters. mixed at 88.2k 24 bit and mastered by gregg calbi in both the analog and digital domains. mistakes were made at mastering as i was not there in nyc for the session. we may remaster in the future if a repress is needed or a vinyl release is worth doing.
the forbidden ep, alas, hearts of palm and levitate were different in the respect that we tracked on protools 3 and eventually mix plus systems using the older apogee ad500 and ad1000 convertors until the bechmarks came in around levitate and re-recorded onto and mixed from my ampex mm1200 with 16 track heads (+ 9 levels, 30ips ampex 499 or gp9) within 24 hours to avoid particle migration and the parasitic phase shift that happens in the first few days when the recording ages. extra tracks (as many as 12) that were more ambient or low level in nature would be played out through pro tools synced to smpte on the deck. alas was unique as the basic tracks were recorded live to jeff's 3m m79 16 track (a real disaster, but thats another thread if your interested) and overdubs were done in pro tools and recorded to the master tape at the mixing stage. all the mixing and some tracking for these records was done at my studio in downtown los angeles. except for the forbidden ep which was tracked at jeff's parents house in 96, the tracking was done in jeff's house and small studio for all the records.
the vast majority of analog gear we use from guitars, amps, keys, drums, mics, pres, eq's, effects, console and recorders have been built, modified, restored and maintained by myself or the following folks that are all masters in their respective disciplines. avedis kafedjian, dave royer, tony merril, peter butt, mike spitz, steve hogan, bill whitlock, john carruthers, john gaudesi, ken rich, the guy who fixed the intonation issues on jeffs 4 strings and the guy that rebuilt his steinway (can't remember their names).
i also do most of the cooking!
bill

RE: Studio/Recording Setup for "Dick"? | from JeffAug 20 2011 - 15:18

While Bill is ignoring us here you an at least see what a kick-ass guitarist he was back in the early 90's.Fast forward through the first song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3ouqsnddra

RE: Studio/Recording Setup for "Dick"? | from jeffAug 20 2011 - 15:15

Comon' Bill.....stop being a dick!! :)

RE: Studio/Recording Setup for "Dick"? | from jeffJul 08 2011 - 21:16

I'll pester him some more !! :)

RE: Studio/Recording Setup for "Dick"? | from brianTJul 08 2011 - 14:24

Bill... Are you there? Would love to see what's under the hood:)

RE: Studio/Recording Setup for "Dick"? | from jeffJun 29 2011 - 17:56

Wait until you here the real thing!! :)

Bill said he'd answer this thread. He's the man with the plan and the know how.

RE: Studio/Recording Setup for "Dick"? | from JamusnzJun 29 2011 - 14:47

I only ordered the vinyl last night and think the same as you.what a beautiful sounding recording.wow listening on my iPod as walking to work and the mix separation is stunning.thanks Jeff , I would love to know a little more about your recording process as well.

studio/recording setup | from RobJun 29 2011 - 09:47

Jeff,

Congratulations on the new record. Wondering what your studio setup is currently? Broad question I know, but it'd be great to read some details about your setup in a magazine like 'TapeOp'. You consistently achieve a bass sound that rattles my ribcage - love it.

Are you still using any tape? Have any favorite pre's/mics signal paths for guitars/vocals?

Rob

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